我們的問題僅僅與#2有關。在任何維基媒體專案上部署臨時帳戶之前,我們已經選擇了這些數字閾值。然而,我們清楚地認識到,這些門檻相當低,惡意行為者仍然很容易取得臨時帳戶 IP 位址。我們聽到了多個社群對此的擔憂,包括第一批試點社群。我們希望臨時帳戶能夠真正改善編輯者的隱私,因此在擁有大型社群的維基上推出此功能之前,我們需要採取更嚴格的限制。
Hey @Eric Liu. If I interpret your comment correctly, you doubt if a higher number would be a better solution? Yeah, it's fairly easy for people with bad intentions to meet the criteria if these are just numbers of this or that. The essence of the change is that users who are not admins, CheckUsers, etc. would need to be granted the right manually by people, as opposed to a script.--SGrabarczuk (WMF)(留言) 2025年3月12日 (三) 08:34 (UTC)
@SGrabarczuk (WMF): I think he means that 600 edits may not be enough for this flag.But that is not the key point.The key point, as you say, is that it should be up to the community to judge whether or not to grant this flag based on the credibility of the user, and the number of edits is only one of the criteria used to assist the judgment.--人间百态,独尊变态(讨论)(签名)2025年3月12日 (三) 14:46 (UTC)
@YFdyh000, for almost everyone, only temporary account name (like ~2025-12345) will be visible. People with access to IP addresses of temporary accounts will also have access to IP Info, and that tool gives this data - just like on this screenshot.--SGrabarczuk (WMF)(留言) 2025年3月12日 (三) 16:26 (UTC)
Thanks for your comment, @Akishima Yuka. In my opinion, users with IPBE don't have that much in common with this topic, because they (passively) benefit from something, whereas this topic is meant to be about users who (actively) need information about other users' IP address. For example, I have the IPBE flag on Spanish Wikipedia, but I'm not really involved in fighting vandalism there. Does that make sense? What do you think?--SGrabarczuk (WMF)(留言) 2025年3月12日 (三) 17:55 (UTC)
@SGrabarczuk (WMF):Hi there, I believe what Akishima talked about is 'IPBE Grantor' instead of IPBE, which is a special user right that only exists in zhwiki due to high backlog of IPBE request. Though, I think it's stil not relevant because granting IPBE doesnt matter with viewing temp accounts IP Address(es), and if it's the qualification of viewing temp accounts IP Address, it would be too high obviously.--Aqurs2025年3月12日 (三) 18:03 (UTC)
You may regard the public proxy IP address as a verification of their request, or else the IPBE granting would have no threshold at all. The technique and possible money cost of using a proxy can be a threshold for the uninvited.--Akishima Yuka(留言) 2025年3月12日 (三) 18:24 (UTC)
Thanks both! Google or DeepL translated the comments as IPBE grantee, not IPBE grantor, that's why I didn't understand initially. The requirements for IPBE Grantor are higher than the ones which we'd like to apply to IP reveal - that's good.
I think that technically, the easiest solution will be for the community to adopt a local (just for zhwiki) policy that all IPBE Grantors are given IP reveal (as an integral part of 權限申請/申請IP封鎖豁免授予權), and then whoever grants the IPBE Grantor permission, would also grant IP reveal. So it would be the manual way.
@SGrabarczuk (WMF):Hello, I would like to know the reason why the recommended threshold is more than 600 edits, rather than 500 or 1000 edits. It seems that it is simply double the minimum requirement of 300 edits?
Secondly, the threshold for the extended confirmed user in Chinese Wikipedia is more than 500 edits, and the account must be at least 30 days old. Based on the above comments in this discussion, it seems that the community may want the threshold similar to that of the extended confirmed user. Therefore, I am curious to know if it is possible to access a temporary account's IP address if the account has more than 500 edits (instead of the recommended 600 edits) and is at least 6 months old. Thank you!--SCP-0000(留言) 2025年4月4日 (五) 12:28 (UTC)
Hey @SCP-2000, thanks for pinging me. 600 edits is the softer part of our recomendation. Technically, we will be requiring 300 edits, and that's it. The key however is the manual granting (instead of the automatic way), and the requirement for providing a reason for asking for the right. Not everybody who is active and fairly experienced really needs access to other users' data - this is the point we would like to make.
So, personally, I guess it would be best to not connect this right with extended confirmed. Even though the requirements are similar, the purposes for these groups are not related, really. On the other hand, SPI Clerks (傀儡調查助理) and maybe maybe IPBE Grantors (IP封鎖豁免權授予者) - that sounds related. Thanks,--SGrabarczuk (WMF)(留言) 2025年4月4日 (五) 16:30 (UTC)
@SGrabarczuk (WMF): I noticed from a screenshot that you attached above – what is this "Users on this IP" thing? Is it just for "Temporary users on this IP" (I hope it is)?--路西法人2025年3月13日 (四) 04:48 (UTC)
@LuciferianThomas It means "The average number of clients that have been observed on this IP address by Spur. It takes into account all activity from this IP address. This is calculated over a 24 hour period." If you click "ⓘ" next to "Users on this IP", you can see the above description. You may visit this page to learn more about this feature. Thanks.--SCP-0000(留言) 2025年3月13日 (四) 10:22 (UTC)
So "all activity" would include those from registered users? Even if it is only across a 24-hour period, I would strongly oppose this right being allocated to any user without a necessity to view such information. Please clarify whether registered activity is also accounted for in this data. --路西法人2025年3月14日 (五) 00:49 (UTC)
What and how exactly does it count as a client to the IP? If that is not clarified, I could only taken into account the textual description of "all activity" (including any registered user editing Wikipedia).--路西法人2025年3月14日 (五) 01:15 (UTC)
Great questions, @LuciferianThomas. I've asked the team because I wasn't sure myself :D
SCP-2000 is correct. IP Info only presents data about IPs pertaining to 1. IP users on wikis without temporary accounts 2. temp accounts on wikis with temp accounts.--SGrabarczuk (WMF)(留言) 2025年3月14日 (五) 15:06 (UTC)
「Appropriate venues for such disclosures include pages dedicated to Long-term abuse. 」這是指包括但不限於。個人認為只要在有需要的情況下(例如是無法在不披露 ip 及僅提及某臨時帳號的情況下制止有關破壞行為),任何用於提報違反方針指引的頁面,皆可於該處公開提報 IP。謝謝。--SCP-0000(留言) 2025年4月3日 (四) 03:45 (UTC)
(~)補充:本人提报/16主要从单一破坏IP发现,现有政策There must be a valid reason to investigate a temporary user. Note that using multiple temporary accounts is not forbidden, so long as they are not used in violation of policies (an example of a violation includes to evade blocks or bans).是否禁止仅因单一临时账户破坏查/16下编辑,必须合理怀疑其使用傀儡?--Python6345(查论编) 2025年5月3日 (六) 05:29 (UTC)
如果是指Special:Contributions这个操作界面用词的话,Contributions有“something that you contribute or do to help produce or achieve something together with other people, or to help make something successful”,中文对应有“1. (donation) 捐献 、2. (help) 贡献 、3. (article) 稿件 ”的意思。或者说原本维基项目的软件开发可能有一种善意假定,所有用户的编辑操作都是善意的“贡献”或“供稿”。“编辑历史”可能需要添加额外修饰“什么的”(用户的(也就是现在中文用的“用户贡献”),还是页面的(也就是“页面历史”))。可能从技术上应用和其原本意义,好像改掉“贡献”有点没事找事或者抠字眼了。——Sakamotosan路过围观 | 避免做作,免敬2025年5月23日 (五) 06:43 (UTC)
隔壁contributions都沒改,我們沒啥改的動機吧。況且如其他人所說,我不認為有必要為了少數破壞把整個用語改掉,這其實是本末倒置;怎麼會覺得為(可能的)破壞者或若干不良(非建設性)編輯丟掉「貢獻」一詞的積極意義,然後改「量身打造」某個「中立」詞彙比較好呢?那可太糊塗了。絕大部分人的貢獻,無論程度多寡,均不應因此而抹煞。—— Eric Liu 創造は生命(留言・留名・學生會)2025年5月23日 (五) 15:57 (UTC)
關於存取要求-我們決定繼續實施管理員(以及在需要時,監管員)的想法,手動授予需要的人查看 IP 的權利。(T390942) 我們能考慮的選項有限。基本的臨時帳戶 IP 位址存取政策必須適用於所有維基媒體專案,為全域的工作人員和各個社群所接受,並且從不同國家(地区)編輯者的角度和法律風險的角度考慮。這就是為什麼我們不能嚴格遵循當地共識或過於廣泛地授予 IP 位址存取權限。今年晚些時候,我們可能會重新討論政策要求或例外等主題。 (不過,您可以制定本地政策!——有關詳細信息,請參見下文。)
Hey @魔琴, thanks for the questions. 1. Yes, the solution is to create a registered account. This limit is the same as the existing limit for IP addresses. 2. We haven't talked about the time of deployment here yet. 3. We assume that community members holding advanced rights related to fighting abuse (like the ones you mentioned) need access to IP addresses to do their work. Does this answer all your questions?--SGrabarczuk (WMF)(留言) 2025年5月15日 (四) 02:06 (UTC)
Hey @Xiaohuangbo, my apologies, I think I don't fully understand what you are saying. Are you proposing that users are granted access to temporary account IP addresses based on consensus instead of a single administrator decision? We do not object to that - if your community decides to do so, okay. We just aren't asking you to do it. It's up to you as the community. Does this clarify the situation?--SGrabarczuk (WMF)(留言) 2025年5月28日 (三) 19:09 (UTC)